STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We're also keeping up on other news, including a supposed Easter truce in the war on Ukraine. Russia declared that truce, and then both Russia and Ukraine accused the other of violating it. Over the weekend, we also had news of the effort to bring peace in Ukraine. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio met with Ukrainian officials and came away saying that if a deal doesn't seem possible soon, the United States will move on. NPR's Joanna Kakissis is covering all of this. Joanna, welcome.
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Hello.
INSKEEP: How did Ukrainians respond to the U.S. I guess threat is the word or statement that they can walk away?
KAKISSIS: So most Ukrainians I've been speaking to say there is much more uncertainty now about Ukraine's fate. I just got back last night from the northeastern Ukrainian city of Sumy, which is about 16 miles from the Russian border. Russian forces repeatedly strike Sumy. So a little over a week ago, on Palm Sunday, Russia hit the cities downtown with two ballistic missiles. They killed 35 people, injured more than a hundred. And I spoke to a music college administrator, Nadia Hryn (ph), who lost a very close friend in that Palm Sunday attack.
NADIA HRYN: (Through interpreter) The horror and cruelty, we feel it every day. We tell ourselves that we will get through these. Yet every night we say, have a safe day, have a safe night, a quiet evening. That's something we never did before.
KAKISSIS: Ukrainians here also told me that it seems Russian President Vladimir Putin is controlling the direction of peace talks and that the Trump administration seems more interested in striking business deals with Moscow and not in working toward a durable peace deal with terms that are fair to Ukraine.
INSKEEP: OK, so that's what Ukrainians, some of them, anyway, are saying that they perceive. Secretary of State Marco Rubio made this statement after meeting with Ukrainians - the next step is to take whatever peace proposal they have to the Russians. What do the Ukrainians you talk with see as fair terms here?
KAKISSIS: So the main ones include refusing to recognize the Ukrainian territory occupied by Russian troops as belonging to Russia, getting back all prisoners of war and thousands of Ukrainian children abducted by Russia, and providing security guarantees - this one's key - so Russia does not invade Ukraine again. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says these terms, and especially anything to do about territory, that cannot be discussed seriously until there is a durable ceasefire first.
INSKEEP: That's very interesting because it seems likely, and the Trump administration has leaned toward the idea that you would have a ceasefire along the current battle lines, which means that the Russians would get to keep some territory, even if it was not formally recognized as Russian.
KAKISSIS: That's right.
INSKEEP: But you mentioned the ceasefire would have to come first, according to Zelenskyy. Has the United States been able to enforce or get the Russians to stand behind a durable, as opposed to a temporary, ceasefire?
KAKISSIS: Well, as you know, Ukraine agreed to a U.S.-brokered 30-day ceasefire unconditionally about a month ago. Russia never signed on and eventually escalated attacks on Ukraine. And then it was this weekend that Putin declared his own truce, and it's one that's already ended.
INSKEEP: OK. So then there's the question of what happens if peace talks don't go anywhere. Are the Ukrainians prepared to endure without as much support or any support from the United States if they had to?
KAKISSIS: Well, look, Steve, Zelenskyy has said repeatedly that losing the U.S. as a partner and peace broker would be devastating, and Ukraine needs military aid to keep defending itself from Russia. So what he's been doing is strengthening ties with the Europeans who still consider Russia a threat to international security.
INSKEEP: Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv. Thanks so much.
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